• Hardware
  • H3-based boards that boot EngineBASIC NG

Ahoy,
Interfacing with hardware is the responsibility of the operating system. With Linux and Android the base op sys is the Linux kernel. Everything else is window dressing and the reality of needed to communicate with the kernel. In the Wintel world each part of the hardware is usually separate from the CPU. In the Arm world the SOC (System-On-a-Chip) is most of the computer system hardware. Even so in Linux, Android and Windows drivers are used to allow each piece of hardware to communicate with the kernel.

What Uli has done is write a programming language as an interface directly to an op sys which he also wrote. This is a huge job even just concentrating on one SOC. It is much easier with something like Basic-256 which links to the Linux OS. He wrote bare-metal code to boot then interface with the SOC & hardware and have a way to program it. Trying to do this for each SOC would be an impossible task for one person or even a small group of people. Look at how many people work to port Linux or even Emuelec to many SOCs.

What originally attracted me to EB NG was the simplicity of applying power and starting to program in a few seconds on inexpensive computer boards. As far as an upgrade path I'd lean toward sticking with the Allwinner SOC family, perhaps the H6. But I think the inexpensive H3 will be around for a while longer.

Almost since building computers began a universal seamlessly portable op sys and programming language has been the Holy Grail, as sought after as the "theory of everything" in physics. I don't see it happening anytime soon. And wouldn't it be boring then ayway?
daveyb

    5 days later

    MC10Guru I went and had a look through the code in the Github allwinner-bare-metal framework repository and can see the amount of work that has gone into creating the bare-metal layer. I'm assuming that some of that effort is searching for already existing solutions, while other is connecting it all together and getting it to work. Uli has definitely done a great job pulling it all together.

    Ahoy,
    Back on the topic of H3 boards that run Engine BASIC NG...

    I finally received my US$18 FriendlyArm Nanopi M1 H3 512mb computer in yesterday's post. In 2 minutes I had it hooked up and it booted straight to EB NG. This SBC has 3xUSB2 & 1xmicroUSB OTG plus things like a microphone, IR, HDMI & CVBS out all on a 56mm square board. I added a litlle RPi SOC heat sink just in case.

    Today I'll mount it on a 7" LCD monitor for a complete EB NG system. I also found out my Rii K18 rechargable wireless keyboard/touchpad has a "stay awake for 2 hours" mode so it's totally usable in EB NG. I'll use my battery pack when I need to make it a fully portable setup.

    When I get my 10" screen/case kit from Amazon I'll put my Libre Tritium SBC in that. I can use it for EB NG but I have a feeling it will be mostly used for RetrOrangePi. I ordered two different small powered speaker setups to try with that. I have a Sunfounder 10" LCD monitor with a good LCD panel but a bad driver board. It has 2 good flat speakers but I'm not sure how they are powered and I'm not sure I want to part it out just yet.

    Next major step: Go to the Github EB NG Wiki, figure out how and then help edit/update some info on there.
    Happy Holidays,
    daveyb

      MC10Guru Wow, that must have been a really good buy. Now they're priced at $48 but are listed as temporarily unavailable.You definitely have to grab them when you see them.

      Sounds like you've got a neat portable setup going there. Shame we can't easily share photos on this forum.

        13 days later

        guidol They look very small and compact, but without onboard HDMI output they are not much good to me for a BASIC Engine platform.

          Ahoy,
          First, what Hawk said...I looked at the OPi Zero and it also has no video output. I'm not into SSHing or UARTing. Last night on eBay a Chinese dealer had OPi One 512mb boards for $25+tax (it has HDMI). They sold out overnight. "He who hesitates is lost" I thought 😐

          Now about a strange thing that happened this week. I bought an MXQ Pro 5G box out of curiosity. It's supposed to have an Amlogic S905, Android 10.1, 4G+64G, BT4.0 etc. This box turned out to be a total fake. It's really an H3 1+8 board with Android 7.0. I consider that a plus if it boots EB NG. Unlike the R69 it has all 4 USB ports and a fullsize SD slot but, also like my R69, this fake MXQ Pro will not boot anything from the SD card slot (EB NG, Armbian 10, Lubuntu 16.04, ROPi 4.3). So for now it's in my "junk TV Box" Box.. Out of 5 H3 Tv Boxes one boots everything, one boots EB NG only and the rest boot nothing from the card slot 🙁

          Guidol: You of Armbian fame (I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy) I'm reading the R69 thread on the Armbian forums right now. Perhaps you could tell me why 3 of my 5 H3 Android TV boxes will not boot anything but a recovery SD card even though the H3 should boot from SD first? I futzed up my Turwell T95S box in a failed flashing experiment so I successfully flashed the original firmware from a uSD card just fine. But it still boots nothing else. And the Longyi T95S boots EB NG but not any other Op Sys from the card slot. It's very confusing 😅

          I do wish we had private messaging on here. Other than that I like this forum very much 😁 Happy holidays all!
          daveyb

            Hawk
            Oops - Sorry - I totally missed to se that the NanoPi ZeroPi has no HDMI, because with armbian (where it is supported) I mostly run the boards headless via SSH 😉

            MC10Guru
            I thin when the one box boots only EB NG and no other OS its up to the .DTB (Description of the Hardware Tree) . The .DTB of EB NG may be a cutdown version which doesnt support/need much different hardware and drivers (only display, sound, input) but maybe not the right wifi.
            If you try to start a more complex os like armbian the .dtb should fit the sbc-hardware.
            But why buy an TV-Box only if there a more (non-working) components, when you could get a OPi One which does work fine with EB NG 😉

            I only did buy 2 TV-Boxes. The Sunvell R69 H3 and a Sunvell T95K Pro OctaCore S912.
            The T95K Pro cant run EB NG. In the past it did run "unofficial" TV-Box armbian - but the amlogic-CPU support has been dropped. So now its my TV-ANdroid-Box for Netflix.
            And my trusty old OPi PC (H3) is running H3droid as Text-to-Speech-Server.
            In the last 1.5 years ther were so many fakes of TV-Boxes and new hardware in every revision 🙁
            And on the most of this top-feature TV-Boxes the Android runs much slower with Octacore than on some old DualCore-TV-Boxes from kknown-good brands 🙁

              I didn't want to totally throw my money away with my failed purchase of a R69 H3 smart TV, so I've been experimenting with the other OSs I can install on it.
              I have successfully installed Armbian and LibreElec. I don't actually need either of these OSs on it, but it's been fun learning about how the OSs get installed. I'm still trying to learn about the early boot phases of the SoC with the aim of working out whether EB NG could be ported.
              I know guidol said why bother with the smart TV boxes, when the OPi PC is a known working platform, but it was that the smart TVs were cheaper. I guess I'm not really thinking about me, as I already have a couple of working EB NG platforms. More other people who may wish to get involved. For teaching programming, some of these smart TVs can be bought in bulk for not very much at all. I still like Engine BASIC as a learning platform.

              Wahoo, my new H3 board arrived. I ordered an Lctech Pi H3 (LCPI-H3-V7R3) from Aliexpress and guess what it was labelled on the board...Cherry Pi PC. It's not quote identical form/fit to an OPi, but the dimensions are the same. It uses a USB-C for power instead of the barrel jack which gave me a moment of grief. I guess it's just a new cable that I need to buy.
              Anyway, I'm happy to report (as you all know already) I plugged in my EB NG SD card and it booted up straight away.
              I now have 3 different SBCs that will boot EB NG. 😄

                Ahoy,
                Hawk: This is just bizarre but this morn I was reading at Linux Gizmos and just read about this exact H3 board. I made a note to check it out. What was the price range? There was none given at the website.

                A bad week so far. I'm just trying to keep my mind in gear. daveyb

                • Hawk replied to this.

                  MC10Guru The boards are currently listed as AU$31.44 for no eMMC and AU$44.06 for eMMC version. I bought the non-eMMC version, as I'm happy booting from SD card.
                  I like that I can plug the same SD card into any of the boards I have and it looks and feels the same.
                  I still require the support of a regular PC of some description to transfer external software onto the SD card. I can't plug in a second SD card and just copy stuff from one to the other. It feels a bit like a single floppy drive system of old. 😆
                  guidol It's a good report. I contacted the supplier to see if they would provide the cheaper non-WiFi version, as I just wanted it for EB NG, but they are not producing it, and would only do so if I ordered in quantity. I only want one to test. I expect that it would work fine, and be the same form as the WiFi version.

                  Hawk, are the mounting holes on the Lctech Pi H3 board the same as on the Raspberry Pi board? I received the Vilros 10 Inch Screen with Flip Stand Case for Raspberry Pi 4 Model B and 3 Model B-B+. It comes with a USB-C cable for power on the Raspberry Pi 4. The opening on the side is cutout for the different ports on the Raspberry Pi 4 and 3. If the mounting holes are the same, the Lctech Pi H3 board may also work with this case and screen. I am going to try it with my Libre ALL-H3-CC 1Gb board this weekend.

                    Willard I believe the dimensions are the same as RPi, but I'm not sure which model. I don't have a RPi 4. I have a RPi 3 that I will check against.
                    The dimensions and basic layout are the same as the OPi, except that the USB-C is on the same side as the uSD slot. Two of the mounting holes are in the same place, but two of them are about 1/4 of the way along the edge, rather than in the corners.

                    Ahoy,
                    Willard: I have my Libre Tritium mounted inside the Vilros 10" flipcase thing and it fits tight but fine. The IR detector and the heatsink really fit tight with the fan though. I have the Libre blue heatsink which keeps it cool enough so I just removed the cooling fan. The monitor doesn't have sound built-in so I can either hook my little powered speakers to the analog sound port or use my HDMI sound extractor adapter to get sound. I do see myself cutting more port access in the case soon though as with sound and such I have to keep the lid unlatched. Since I have my Nanopi M1 booting EB NG mounted on a 7" lcd touchscreen w/sound I may end up using the flipcase for a RPi 4B booting Recalbox. I found a keyboard that is basically the exact size of the fliptop too, but unfortunately it is bluetooth 🙁

                    I'm off to bed, gotta be at hospital early tomorrow. daveyb

                    MC10Guru: I have been working with my Libre Tritium and the Vilros 10" flipcase screen. I also have the Libre blue heatsink on it. I check it out with a monitor to make sure it was working before mounting it in the Vilros flipcase. there was no problem. I decided to connect the Vilros cables to it to test the screen before mounting it. When I turned it on the Vilros splash screen came up then a no source message. I never got past the no source message. I have Armbian on another SD card, so I changed SD cards and the Armbian SD card booted past the no source message into the desktop. I connected the Libre board back to the monitor and tried different CONFIG 10,#s. None of these changes got me past the no source message.

                    Did you have to change anything to get it working on your Vilros 10" flipcase screen? I would appreciate any help you can provide me.

                    Ahoy,
                    I don't really do anything too special with EB NG other than set a screen 3 (to use with HDMI or A/V modes) and load my TI99 font file.

                    This is my config.ini:
                    keyboard=1
                    mode=3
                    font=0
                    keyword_sep_optional=0
                    language=0
                    filter=0
                    cursor_color=0xff009500
                    beep_volume=3
                    phys_mode=0
                    tv_norm=0
                    color0=0,0,0
                    color1=192,192,192
                    color2=255,255,255
                    color3=128,128,128
                    color4=10,120,160
                    color5=140,140,140
                    color6=244,233,123
                    color7=214,91,189
                    color8=50,50,255
                    color9=238,137,17
                    color10=84,255,0
                    color11=0,0,0

                    This is my autoexec.bas:
                    10 REM TI99 font start
                    20 LOAD FONT "TI99.ttf"
                    30 FONT "TI99"SIZE 8,8
                    40 FILES
                    50 END
                    Line "40 FILES" is just to see that it changed to the TI99 font.

                    I just got back from my last RAD treatment today (WooHoo!!) so I'll try to set up later after my head clears and check everything for sure.

                    I have a Kano 10" monitor I use on my HiFiPi system and RPi OS didn't like the 1280x800 resolution until I adjusted to a closer one before boot. And the default orientation on those monitors puts the screen upside down (horizontal tablet not vertical monitor) so I had to rotate RPi OS 180 degrees to use the monitor in vertical orientation. That is not a problem with the Vilros screen.
                    daveyb

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