H3 Based Android TV Boxes

painintheworld

1:30 AM update. Using a higher quality, and probably more importantly, powered USB hub, I can report that with the powered hub plugged into USB port 1, a gamepad, trackball, and keyboard were successfully tested to run from the hub.

At least whilst running Android TV and browsing web pages, this sucker gets pretty dang warm - even in a 65 degree F/18.75 degree C ambient temp room.

As an Android TV box...the factory launcher absolutely sucks. Just terrible. Some sideloading must happen before it is used much. YouTube works fine in 1080p30; it will not go any higher. As expected, the Netflix experience is plain bad; the best I could get is 960x540. This is status quo for these budget Android TV boxes. No media streaming, network or local, has been tried yet. In the next little bit I have some H265 100Mbps GoPro footage to work on (4k30 and 4k60), so we will give it a little stress test. When I bring an ethernet switch home from storage I will try out ethernet performance. Per prior experience and observations with these cheap boxes, WiFi performance is very subpar. WiFi in the room I'm in isn't that great to begin with, but this box will only obtain about 1/4 of what other devices in this room get (most get about 60 down/15 up in here on 2.4).

@Hawk I have no qualms (at least a few days from now) of attempting to load something else to the inbuilt eMMC...if you will tell me how 🙂

So far it seems like a very decent way of getting Engine BASIC up and running, considering the massive price increases on other Allwinner H3 SBCs.

A wiki would be nice. I wish things were further along at my place, so that I could get a server off and stuck in a rack. I had several years of very serious health stuff happen and everything (meaning literally everything) got put wayyyy back on the backburner. Now I'm slowly but surely getting eight years of built up junk and life stuff straightened up. If there is a preferred domain name, let me know! If nothing else I will register a domain (or use one a retro computer domain I have), get a DDNS service up and running, and host a wiki, repo, etc. here. Soon, soon 🙂

Hawk

painintheworld You have been busy researching.
I'd love to say I knew how to load in to the built-in staorage, but I'm still learning. Uli could probably give you some pointers. I know that he uses the JTAG interface if possible.
I haven't read any info about it yet, I'm still learning how to build the firmware.
I was in the process of documenting how to build the SDL version of the program when I kept coming up against problems. I trying to build the ESP32 version ATM and it seems to be going OK. I have the startings of some instructions. Uli could probably add to them though.

Building the SDL version of BASIC Engine
If you don’t already have ‘git’ installed, enter the following command on the command line;
sudo apt install git
This will install ‘git’ which is the tool used to configure manage the BASIC Engine project.
Change directory to the location where you would like to checkout the BASIC Engine source code to build it.
cd ModernRetroComputer/BASIC_OS
To clone the source code from the github repository enter the following command;
git clone https://github.com/uli/basicengine-firmware.git
This will replicate the BASIC Engine firmware into your chosen directory.
Change to the new basic engine directory.
cd basicengine-firmware
Now I had issues with the first stage, as it required Python 2 to be installed. I am running Ubuntu Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS, which only has Python 3 installed by default. The make script will generate errors based on old syntax of ‘print’ commands. I chose not to install the old version of Python and rather update the Python files to add parentheses around the print strings. This required the editing of ttbasic/icode.py and ttbasic/epi.py. I may suggest to Uli that we update the scripts to the Python 3 standard, but clearly he is having no issue.
You then need to install the required SDL development packages using the following commands;
sudo apt install libsdl1.2-dev
sudo apt install libsdl-gfx1.2-dev

They're currently in a document so that I can upload it when finished. Tell me if I'm pitching it at the correct level.
The command to make the SDL version is;
make sdl
but I think that you need to make one of the embedded versions first, otherwise you get an error for the file "version.h" missing.

uli

painintheworld A wiki would be nice.

I have just created the basicengine-wiki repo on GitHub and have added you as a collaborator. Anybody else interested in contributing documentation can tell me their GitHub user name and I'll add them. Let's see how this goes.

Hawk

uli I would appreciate it if you could add me as a collaborator also, as I would like to contribute to this project in any way I can.

painintheworld

uli Oh, that is awesome! This should be the impetus I need to learn to use the ins and outs of GitHub. Thank you again for all of your work on the BASIC Engine! Will start another thread topic tomorrow for the wiki, so as to get ideas and/or guidance.

@Hawk Thank you soooo much for the instructions! It may be Friday or early Saturday before I get to work on that much.

uli

Hawk I would appreciate it if you could add me as a collaborator

I need a GitHub user name for that.

Hawk

uli OzHawk

MC10Guru

Ahoy,
My father always said if a bandwagon came to town I'd jump right on it. Well I saw the T95Super bandwagon and went to Amazon and jumped on it. Really how else can you buy a computer with 2GB RAM and 16GB storage for $30? In this market? So I tried a diffent one. It was the cheapest at 53 pennies less money. It booted Engine BASIC NG no prob. Only funny thing is I use one of those mini 2.4gHz wireless keyboard/trackpads for testing purposes. It works after booting EB NG until it enters sleep (about 2 mins of inactivity) then never wakes up in EB NG. A reboot is required to wake it up in th that OS. So out came my big USB wired keyboard.

Engine BASIC ran perfect and the computer ran cool. Everything I tested worked as expected. Unlike the Tauon I could output on either HDMI or CVBS but not both. Boot with HDMI and CVBS connected and it outputs on HDMI. Pull out the HDMI cable and it boots to CVBS. The A/V output seemed to be more rock solid than on the Tauon but that may be because the HDMI is not on. Note: I found the Android 10 desktop clunky and awkward but pretty peppie and usable after some adjustments. However if I go to my plan it will go away when I try an experiment involving the Tauon OS and flashing.

Speaking of the flash RAM, ignore anything you may have read about using eMMC on these T95S boxes.
Chances are 99% that the flash is NAND as on the Tauon. Mainline linux can see eMMC but doesn't normally have drivers to see NAND. 3 versions of Linux could not detect the Flash storage in parted. So it is almost certain it is NAND flash. That must be handled with greater care outside of Android. And there is a button to put the flash into write mode at the end ov the A/V socket. To flash you use a toothpick or paperclip to hold the button in for a few seconds as you apply power.

Vladomir (Tauon computer) doesn't require pushing anything to flash the NAND with Tauon OS. I suspect he uses some sort of OTA type process for flashing. If you talk nice to him on the Tauon he may tell you something about it so you might be able to flash EB NG to the NAND. Just keep in mind that since it is NAND not eMMC it is more complicated and you may corrucpt the flash storage. Armbian has a flash multitool program that can BU the flash then write an image to it. Might be an avenue to explore if you are determined to get EB NG onto the flash storage. It is nice that the H3 SOC always tries to boot from the sd card 1st so its almost impossible to brick it even if the flash is corrupted. Still:

WARNING I am not responsible for any damgae to anyone's computer during their experiments. YMMV and it is up to you what you try.

As far as hardware mods there are pads on the board for a UART header next to the RAM chips. It should run at 3.3V. You could wire a small 5V fan to run from this header in quiet 3.3V mode. Or you can solder a 4-pin header there and connect it to a UART to USB cable to observe the boot from a terminal program as intended. One simple fix if its getting hot is to turn it upside down when you run it to let the heat vent properly. BTW, in that position compare it the the board connectors on a Tauon PC-1. See the perfect resemblance? That got me thinking...

Thanks for the tip on the T95Super and Engine BASIC NG. The cheaper we can get a computer to run EB NG the more chance we can get others involved. This is Brilliant!
daveyb

painintheworld

@MC10Guru Glad you got it going! Have you tried both USB ports? I've not had much luck with USB port 2.

Hawk

Has anyone tried BASIC Engine on one of these?
R69
They look OK, but I can’t see that they have an SD interface.

MC10Guru

Ahoy,
PITW: I have had probs w/my little wireless test keyboard. If it goes to sleep it never comes back in EB NG. I'm not sure if I tried both USB ports.

Hawk: I'm not saying for sure but the layout looks like a standard H3 TV Box. Look at the angled picture that shows the right side and there is a USB1 port and what looks like (and should be) the uSD card slot. Pretty little case...but I'm wondering why nobody puts enough vent slots on these boxes. I'm modding my T95 Super with an 80mm (yes 80mm) square 5V fan on the bottom to run it much cooler. EB NG never seems to run hot but anything else on an H3 can reach 80+d C in a short time. One could just de-case the board and apply a 40mmx40mmx11mm heatsink instead.

TIP: a while ago I grew frustrated trying to insert and eject uSD cards on these small boxes. Either I had to use tweezers or the tiny card flew out of the slot! So I bought found a 4-pack of uSD extender cards
(about 30mm) for $10 to simplify it. I use them on SBCs in cases, TV Boxes, my Pinebook, etc...I wouldn't live without them now.
daveyb

Hawk

MC10Guru Thanks for the tip on the R69 board. I guess it's a similar price to the T95, but I'm just looking for options. I'm also looking for PCB options for a Tauon like setup using a cheap mechanical keyboard. I would want to include the option for active cooling, just in case it was used for other than EB NG.

Regarding the uSD cards...I know that they're smaller to fit on the PCB, but I much prefer to deal with SD cards. The uSD cards are so small I'm worried that I'm going to break them pushing them in and out. What I would like is a uSD to SD card slot extender. If I want to use uSD cards still, I can just use them in the SD card adaptor. It's also easier to label an SD card.
EDIT:
I found what I'm after. uSD Male to SD Female

MC10Guru

Ahoy,
I can confirm the problem with USB 2 port not working only while using EB NG. On the T95S with USB 1 my wireless keyboard only works on USB 1 (and never comes back from sleep) but my HP USB keybaord only works in USB 1 port also. This may explain my tests with controllers on the Tauon PC-1. I'm almost certain the Tauon (1G/8G) is based on the same basic board as the T95S (2G/16G). The Tauon has 2 USB ports in the same physical locations also: #1 internal (built-in KB) and #2 external. I could never get any game controller to register on a Tauon USB 2 port. Unfortunately as long as EB NG can't see USB 2 then that limits the usefulness of the Tauon w/o a hub strung out from internal USB 1. With the T95S you might be able to use a hub on USB 1; I haven't tested a hub yet. I am now wondering how many ports EB NG sees with an OPi PC or Tritium board? More testing ahead.

PITW: are you aware that the H3 has USB OTG built-in the SOC? Maybe the USB 2 port has OTG enabled? I wonder if this affects the USB port in EB NG. Curiouser and curiouser.

As this this seems to be an Engine BASIC NG issue maybe a bug report thread for Uli to investigate?
daveyb

Hawk

MC10Guru Also Davey, do you have photos of the PCB in the T95S?

BTW, I've just ordered one of these. R69

painintheworld

Hawk These work pretty well, Hawk. I use them on BASIC Engines, Color Maximite, and Color Maximite 2. The only one I've used that doesn't consistently is the one I pulled from the TauonPC 🤣

Hawk

painintheworld Are you telling me that you can program them with Colour Maximite?
I thought it was using a Waveshare SoC and didn't realise that it was compatible.
Did you have to recompile for the H3 or are they using the same basic CPU?

painintheworld

Maybe I looked at something incorrectly, Hawk. I was referring to the USD to SD ribbon adapter you linked. Extremely handy little critters for these little boards!

You are correct about the CM2, although I think most people no longer use a separate Waveshare module nowadays.

Hawk

Here's another Smart TV box that's packaged slightly differently.
MXQ Pro
It appears to have 4 USB and full size SD.
Edit: Oops...I couldn't help myself...just ordered another board to try.

Hawk

No posts for a few days, so I thought I'd prompt the peanut gallery... has anyone else noticed that H3 based Smart TVs seem to be going up in price? Is that because I keep searching for them on Aliexpress?
I have two on the way, and my Tauon and Orange Pi PC already. Even Orange Pi prices seems to be going up.

MC10Guru

Ahoy,
I looked at that MXQ Pro specs and I am wondering if its really an Allwinner H3. It claims 4xCortex A53 cores and Mali T450 GPU. Those sound like the specs for an Allwinner H5. The H3 has 4xCortex A7 and Mali T400 GPU. I have an OPi Prime w/H5 and EB NG is definitely a no go on that. I hope I'm wrong.

As far as prices they are skyrocketing all over. On eBay I was watching an OPi One board and it went from about $28 to about $48 in an instant. On Amazon the price of a 4GB RPi 4B went from $90 to $96 to $106 in a week. However the exact model of T95 Super I bought on Amazon went from $29.46 last week to $28.99 this week. Not much but at least it went down.
daveyb

Hawk

MC10Guru I looked at the product site again, and they seem to have two sets of specifications listed. The first is as you say, and is not those of a H3, however if you scroll down further there is another list of specification that describe the H3. I hope those are the correct ones. A wise man would have contacted the supplier and asked the question, and still not really know the truth. In impatient man would just order and hope for the best. 😆 Guess which man I am? I guess when it arrives I will know whether I have another BE NG computer or a TV box for the bedroom.